Topics

Battery power for Node 4629


Phil D. Mills/NV4P <phil@...>
 

What is everyone using for DC battery backup for the node computer, router, modem, etc, in the event of a power failure? I'm looking for something seamless that doesn't require an AC UPS. See my delimma, below. Thanks for your time.

Phil/NV4P
Node 4629

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Battery power
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 10:34:31 -0600
From: Phil D. Mills/NV4P <phil@nv4p.com>
Reply-To: phil@nv4p.com
Organization: NV4P
To: WA4WKL <julian.harris@earthlink.net>, KG4KGW <kneedeep1@hotmail.com>, W4PWB <kg4ung1@hotmail.com>, K6JSI <k6jsi@winsystem.org>, KD4WCY <ellisdarius@bellsouth.net>, KG4DMB <kg4dmb67@hotmail.com>



Good morning...

Just a quick note to let everyone know, I have lowered the transmitter power of NV4P/L to 5 watts until an adequate (but not pricey) source of DC voltage can be acquired or purchased soon. I discovered a couple of days ago, that at its former power level of 25 watts, the radio's display would dim and the fan would almost quit. Recharging the attached marine battery did not help. I believe that the battery has just about had it. My ultimate goal is to obtain at least a 30amp power supply, a cheap but good quality deep cycle marine battery for backup, and some sort of switching mechanism to move the radio, and required node PC/router/cable modem, to the marine battery automatically, in the event of an AC power failure in the future. (Thus bypassing all of the equipment's 120vAC transformers and power supplies, as they only really need 12vDC or less to run.) I do not want to have to rely on the commercial mains to keep the node on the air, if at all possible. I've been lucky to have the UPS serve the node PC and networking equipment, and not have any prolonged power outages. If I have to build this switching mechanism myself, I'll do it, but it will be something new for me, with a steep learning curve, thus requiring a LOT of time.

Can someone let Rick KI4LSS know? I don't have his email address. I think I covered the most frequent users with an interest to Pensacola. Primary item of business here is getting the node radio a DC power source so I can run more than just 5 watts without killing the radio.

Thanks

Phil D. Mills/NV4P, Pensacola, FL
NV4P/L - 146.46MHz, pl 100Hz.
IRLP Node 4629, EchoLink Node 46290
WIN System Affiliate #65


Rogers, Ron <RR124640@...>
 

I see you are using a cable modem.
At my location, if we loose commercial mains we loose cable service due
to "head end" cable system amplifier (about 1/2 mile away) loosing
power.

How does your cable service act when you loose power ?


Ron
WW8RR


________________________________

From: irlp@yahoogroups.com [mailto:irlp@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Phil D. Mills/NV4P
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 11:41 AM
To: irlp@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [irlp] Battery power for Node 4629



What is everyone using for DC battery backup for the node computer,
router, modem, etc, in the event of a power failure? I'm looking for
something seamless that doesn't require an AC UPS. See my delimma,
below. Thanks for your time.

Phil/NV4P
Node 4629

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Battery power
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 10:34:31 -0600
From: Phil D. Mills/NV4P <phil@nv4p.com <mailto:phil%40nv4p.com> >
Reply-To: phil@nv4p.com <mailto:phil%40nv4p.com>
Organization: NV4P
To: WA4WKL <julian.harris@earthlink.net
<mailto:julian.harris%40earthlink.net> >, KG4KGW
<kneedeep1@hotmail.com <mailto:kneedeep1%40hotmail.com> >, W4PWB
<kg4ung1@hotmail.com <mailto:kg4ung1%40hotmail.com> >, K6JSI
<k6jsi@winsystem.org <mailto:k6jsi%40winsystem.org> >, KD4WCY
<ellisdarius@bellsouth.net <mailto:ellisdarius%40bellsouth.net> >,
KG4DMB
<kg4dmb67@hotmail.com <mailto:kg4dmb67%40hotmail.com> >

Good morning...

Just a quick note to let everyone know, I have lowered the transmitter
power of NV4P/L to 5 watts until an adequate (but not pricey) source of
DC voltage can be acquired or purchased soon. I discovered a couple of
days ago, that at its former power level of 25 watts, the radio's
display would dim and the fan would almost quit. Recharging the attached

marine battery did not help. I believe that the battery has just about
had it. My ultimate goal is to obtain at least a 30amp power supply, a
cheap but good quality deep cycle marine battery for backup, and some
sort of switching mechanism to move the radio, and required node
PC/router/cable modem, to the marine battery automatically, in the event

of an AC power failure in the future. (Thus bypassing all of the
equipment's 120vAC transformers and power supplies, as they only really
need 12vDC or less to run.) I do not want to have to rely on the
commercial mains to keep the node on the air, if at all possible. I've
been lucky to have the UPS serve the node PC and networking equipment,
and not have any prolonged power outages. If I have to build this
switching mechanism myself, I'll do it, but it will be something new for

me, with a steep learning curve, thus requiring a LOT of time.

Can someone let Rick KI4LSS know? I don't have his email address. I
think I covered the most frequent users with an interest to Pensacola.
Primary item of business here is getting the node radio a DC power
source so I can run more than just 5 watts without killing the radio.

Thanks

Phil D. Mills/NV4P, Pensacola, FL
NV4P/L - 146.46MHz, pl 100Hz.
IRLP Node 4629, EchoLink Node 46290
WIN System Affiliate #65


Charles J Killian
 

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Here's how I would do it.

Replace the power supply in the node computer with a 12 VDC supply side
switching supply.

http://www.powerstream.com/mini-itx.htm is one place to look at such a
thing.

Obtain your battery or batteries and hook them to a West Mountain Radio
PWRGate PG40S. Hook a good stiff ANALOG (say Astron) 12 VDC supply to
the PWRGate, hook your load to the PWRGate (radio, computer, controller,
what-have-you).

Get a small inverter for anything that simply must have 110 VAC.

When the AC mains are live the PWRGate acts as a pretty fair charge
controller. When the mains fail everything switches to the battery
nearly instantaneously.

I use this set up at home for my station. When I get equipment for the
station I try and make sure it runs on 12 VDC. I'm heavy into emcomm
and I have no issues.


As to batteries, try and find someone who works for an outfit that
installs industrial grade UPS systems. Generally, by contract, they
will do wholesale change out of batteries every couple of years or so at
an installation. I obtained 8 75 AH batteries at $15 a piece. Six of
them run my station and two are for portable use (at 60 lbs a piece not
so much). These are good glass mat batteries.

Hope this helps some.

Chuck...
WB6YOK


Phil D. Mills/NV4P wrote:
What is everyone using for DC battery backup for the node computer,
router, modem, etc, in the event of a power failure? I'm looking for
something seamless that doesn't require an AC UPS. See my delimma,
below. Thanks for your time.

Phil/NV4P
Node 4629

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Battery power
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 10:34:31 -0600
From: Phil D. Mills/NV4P <phil@nv4p.com>
Reply-To: phil@nv4p.com
Organization: NV4P
To: WA4WKL <julian.harris@earthlink.net>, KG4KGW
<kneedeep1@hotmail.com>, W4PWB <kg4ung1@hotmail.com>, K6JSI
<k6jsi@winsystem.org>, KD4WCY <ellisdarius@bellsouth.net>, KG4DMB
<kg4dmb67@hotmail.com>



Good morning...

Just a quick note to let everyone know, I have lowered the transmitter
power of NV4P/L to 5 watts until an adequate (but not pricey) source of
DC voltage can be acquired or purchased soon. I discovered a couple of
days ago, that at its former power level of 25 watts, the radio's
display would dim and the fan would almost quit. Recharging the attached
marine battery did not help. I believe that the battery has just about
had it. My ultimate goal is to obtain at least a 30amp power supply, a
cheap but good quality deep cycle marine battery for backup, and some
sort of switching mechanism to move the radio, and required node
PC/router/cable modem, to the marine battery automatically, in the event
of an AC power failure in the future. (Thus bypassing all of the
equipment's 120vAC transformers and power supplies, as they only really
need 12vDC or less to run.) I do not want to have to rely on the
commercial mains to keep the node on the air, if at all possible. I've
been lucky to have the UPS serve the node PC and networking equipment,
and not have any prolonged power outages. If I have to build this
switching mechanism myself, I'll do it, but it will be something new for
me, with a steep learning curve, thus requiring a LOT of time.

Can someone let Rick KI4LSS know? I don't have his email address. I
think I covered the most frequent users with an interest to Pensacola.
Primary item of business here is getting the node radio a DC power
source so I can run more than just 5 watts without killing the radio.

Thanks

Phil D. Mills/NV4P, Pensacola, FL
NV4P/L - 146.46MHz, pl 100Hz.
IRLP Node 4629, EchoLink Node 46290
WIN System Affiliate #65

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scottaugsburger
 

Hey Phil,
I use a Tripp Lite SB-400 unit to power my SCADA equipment in
substations which includes a 5 watt radio. I use a sealed lead acid 38Ah
battery and it stays powered for 3.5 hours polling every 20 seconds. Let
alone a marine battery. This unit converts 12 VDC to 120 VAC plus it
charges too. These units have been very reliable. I have around 25 in
service. If any problem crop up it's normally the battery. The normal
UPS has really small battery capacity. That's why I like this combo.

This maybe perfect set up for you. Check it out.

Scott
wr0u

Access Energy Cooperative
Scott Augsburger
Mount Pleasant, Iowa
319-385-6876 Office
319-931-0906 Cellphone
wr0u



"Phil D. Mills/NV4P" <phil@nv4p.com>
Sent by: irlp@yahoogroups.com
02/20/2009 10:54 AM
Please respond to
irlp@yahoogroups.com


To
irlp@yahoogroups.com
cc

Subject
[irlp] Battery power for Node 4629









What is everyone using for DC battery backup for the node computer,
router, modem, etc, in the event of a power failure? I'm looking for
something seamless that doesn't require an AC UPS. See my delimma,
below. Thanks for your time.

Phil/NV4P
Node 4629

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Battery power
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 10:34:31 -0600
From: Phil D. Mills/NV4P <phil@nv4p.com>
Reply-To: phil@nv4p.com
Organization: NV4P
To: WA4WKL <julian.harris@earthlink.net>, KG4KGW
<kneedeep1@hotmail.com>, W4PWB <kg4ung1@hotmail.com>, K6JSI
<k6jsi@winsystem.org>, KD4WCY <ellisdarius@bellsouth.net>, KG4DMB
<kg4dmb67@hotmail.com>

Good morning...

Just a quick note to let everyone know, I have lowered the transmitter
power of NV4P/L to 5 watts until an adequate (but not pricey) source of
DC voltage can be acquired or purchased soon. I discovered a couple of
days ago, that at its former power level of 25 watts, the radio's
display would dim and the fan would almost quit. Recharging the attached
marine battery did not help. I believe that the battery has just about
had it. My ultimate goal is to obtain at least a 30amp power supply, a
cheap but good quality deep cycle marine battery for backup, and some
sort of switching mechanism to move the radio, and required node
PC/router/cable modem, to the marine battery automatically, in the event
of an AC power failure in the future. (Thus bypassing all of the
equipment's 120vAC transformers and power supplies, as they only really
need 12vDC or less to run.) I do not want to have to rely on the
commercial mains to keep the node on the air, if at all possible. I've
been lucky to have the UPS serve the node PC and networking equipment,
and not have any prolonged power outages. If I have to build this
switching mechanism myself, I'll do it, but it will be something new for
me, with a steep learning curve, thus requiring a LOT of time.

Can someone let Rick KI4LSS know? I don't have his email address. I
think I covered the most frequent users with an interest to Pensacola.
Primary item of business here is getting the node radio a DC power
source so I can run more than just 5 watts without killing the radio.

Thanks

Phil D. Mills/NV4P, Pensacola, FL
NV4P/L - 146.46MHz, pl 100Hz.
IRLP Node 4629, EchoLink Node 46290
WIN System Affiliate #65


Evans Mitchell KD4EFM / AFA4TH FL / WQFK-894
 

3 APC UPS 2500, 1 for the entire D-Star system, one each for our
IRLP/EchoIRLP nodes.... the repeaters are on their own separate
EMERG GEN POWER.

Evans

-----Original Message-----
From: irlp@yahoogroups.com [mailto:irlp@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Phil D. Mills/NV4P
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 11:41 AM
To: irlp@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [irlp] Battery power for Node 4629

What is everyone using for DC battery backup for the node computer,
router, modem, etc, in the event of a power failure? I'm looking for
something seamless that doesn't require an AC UPS. See my delimma,
below. Thanks for your time.

Phil/NV4P
Node 4629

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Battery power
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 10:34:31 -0600
From: Phil D. Mills/NV4P <phil@nv4p.com <mailto:phil%40nv4p.com> >
Reply-To: phil@nv4p.com <mailto:phil%40nv4p.com>
Organization: NV4P
To: WA4WKL <julian.harris@earthlink.net
<mailto:julian.harris%40earthlink.net> >, KG4KGW
<kneedeep1@hotmail.com <mailto:kneedeep1%40hotmail.com> >, W4PWB
<kg4ung1@hotmail.com <mailto:kg4ung1%40hotmail.com> >, K6JSI
<k6jsi@winsystem.org <mailto:k6jsi%40winsystem.org> >, KD4WCY
<ellisdarius@bellsouth.net <mailto:ellisdarius%40bellsouth.net> >,
KG4DMB
<kg4dmb67@hotmail.com <mailto:kg4dmb67%40hotmail.com> >

Good morning...

Just a quick note to let everyone know, I have lowered the transmitter
power of NV4P/L to 5 watts until an adequate (but not pricey) source of
DC voltage can be acquired or purchased soon. I discovered a couple of
days ago, that at its former power level of 25 watts, the radio's
display would dim and the fan would almost quit. Recharging the attached

marine battery did not help. I believe that the battery has just about
had it. My ultimate goal is to obtain at least a 30amp power supply, a
cheap but good quality deep cycle marine battery for backup, and some
sort of switching mechanism to move the radio, and required node
PC/router/cable modem, to the marine battery automatically, in the event

of an AC power failure in the future. (Thus bypassing all of the
equipment's 120vAC transformers and power supplies, as they only really
need 12vDC or less to run.) I do not want to have to rely on the
commercial mains to keep the node on the air, if at all possible. I've
been lucky to have the UPS serve the node PC and networking equipment,
and not have any prolonged power outages. If I have to build this
switching mechanism myself, I'll do it, but it will be something new for

me, with a steep learning curve, thus requiring a LOT of time.

Can someone let Rick KI4LSS know? I don't have his email address. I
think I covered the most frequent users with an interest to Pensacola.
Primary item of business here is getting the node radio a DC power
source so I can run more than just 5 watts without killing the radio.

Thanks

Phil D. Mills/NV4P, Pensacola, FL
NV4P/L - 146.46MHz, pl 100Hz.
IRLP Node 4629, EchoLink Node 46290
WIN System Affiliate #65


Peter
 

I use a large car/truck battery that is kept charged by 15 amp
battery charger and a DC to AC power inverter to power the PC and
monitor, the radio and router are powered off the battery but you
could power the router off the inverter.

On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 5:31 PM, Evans Mitchell KD4EFM / AFA4TH FL /
WQFK-894 <kd4efm1@verizon.net> wrote:
3 APC UPS 2500, 1 for the entire D-Star system, one each for our
IRLP/EchoIRLP nodes.... the repeaters are on their own separate
EMERG GEN POWER.

Evans

-----Original Message-----
From: irlp@yahoogroups.com [mailto:irlp@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Phil D. Mills/NV4P
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 11:41 AM
To: irlp@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [irlp] Battery power for Node 4629

What is everyone using for DC battery backup for the node computer,
router, modem, etc, in the event of a power failure? I'm looking for
something seamless that doesn't require an AC UPS. See my delimma,
below. Thanks for your time.

Phil/NV4P
Node 4629

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Battery power
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 10:34:31 -0600
From: Phil D. Mills/NV4P <phil@nv4p.com <mailto:phil%40nv4p.com> >
Reply-To: phil@nv4p.com <mailto:phil%40nv4p.com>
Organization: NV4P
To: WA4WKL <julian.harris@earthlink.net
<mailto:julian.harris%40earthlink.net> >, KG4KGW
<kneedeep1@hotmail.com <mailto:kneedeep1%40hotmail.com> >, W4PWB
<kg4ung1@hotmail.com <mailto:kg4ung1%40hotmail.com> >, K6JSI
<k6jsi@winsystem.org <mailto:k6jsi%40winsystem.org> >, KD4WCY
<ellisdarius@bellsouth.net <mailto:ellisdarius%40bellsouth.net> >,
KG4DMB
<kg4dmb67@hotmail.com <mailto:kg4dmb67%40hotmail.com> >

Good morning...

Just a quick note to let everyone know, I have lowered the transmitter
power of NV4P/L to 5 watts until an adequate (but not pricey) source of
DC voltage can be acquired or purchased soon. I discovered a couple of
days ago, that at its former power level of 25 watts, the radio's
display would dim and the fan would almost quit. Recharging the attached

marine battery did not help. I believe that the battery has just about
had it. My ultimate goal is to obtain at least a 30amp power supply, a
cheap but good quality deep cycle marine battery for backup, and some
sort of switching mechanism to move the radio, and required node
PC/router/cable modem, to the marine battery automatically, in the event

of an AC power failure in the future. (Thus bypassing all of the
equipment's 120vAC transformers and power supplies, as they only really
need 12vDC or less to run.) I do not want to have to rely on the
commercial mains to keep the node on the air, if at all possible. I've
been lucky to have the UPS serve the node PC and networking equipment,
and not have any prolonged power outages. If I have to build this
switching mechanism myself, I'll do it, but it will be something new for

me, with a steep learning curve, thus requiring a LOT of time.

Can someone let Rick KI4LSS know? I don't have his email address. I
think I covered the most frequent users with an interest to Pensacola.
Primary item of business here is getting the node radio a DC power
source so I can run more than just 5 watts without killing the radio.

Thanks

Phil D. Mills/NV4P, Pensacola, FL
NV4P/L - 146.46MHz, pl 100Hz.
IRLP Node 4629, EchoLink Node 46290
WIN System Affiliate #65



--
-------------------------------------
Regards, Peter Gurney.
M1GUR.


Dave Foran <dave@...>
 

I am sorry

But I just enjoy the quiet and I go grease the bearings in the watt hour
meter.. ;-)

Dave, WB8APD, Node 4299

;-)


On Fri, February 20, 2009 11:40, Phil D. Mills/NV4P wrote:
What is everyone using for DC battery backup for the node computer,
router, modem, etc, in the event of a power failure? I'm looking for
something seamless that doesn't require an AC UPS. See my delimma,
below. Thanks for your time.

Phil/NV4P
Node 4629

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Battery power
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 10:34:31 -0600
From: Phil D. Mills/NV4P <phil@nv4p.com>
Reply-To: phil@nv4p.com
Organization: NV4P
To: WA4WKL <julian.harris@earthlink.net>, KG4KGW
<kneedeep1@hotmail.com>, W4PWB <kg4ung1@hotmail.com>, K6JSI
<k6jsi@winsystem.org>, KD4WCY <ellisdarius@bellsouth.net>, KG4DMB
<kg4dmb67@hotmail.com>



Good morning...

Just a quick note to let everyone know, I have lowered the transmitter
power of NV4P/L to 5 watts until an adequate (but not pricey) source of
DC voltage can be acquired or purchased soon. I discovered a couple of
days ago, that at its former power level of 25 watts, the radio's
display would dim and the fan would almost quit. Recharging the attached
marine battery did not help. I believe that the battery has just about
had it. My ultimate goal is to obtain at least a 30amp power supply, a
cheap but good quality deep cycle marine battery for backup, and some
sort of switching mechanism to move the radio, and required node
PC/router/cable modem, to the marine battery automatically, in the event
of an AC power failure in the future. (Thus bypassing all of the
equipment's 120vAC transformers and power supplies, as they only really
need 12vDC or less to run.) I do not want to have to rely on the
commercial mains to keep the node on the air, if at all possible. I've
been lucky to have the UPS serve the node PC and networking equipment,
and not have any prolonged power outages. If I have to build this
switching mechanism myself, I'll do it, but it will be something new for
me, with a steep learning curve, thus requiring a LOT of time.

Can someone let Rick KI4LSS know? I don't have his email address. I
think I covered the most frequent users with an interest to Pensacola.
Primary item of business here is getting the node radio a DC power
source so I can run more than just 5 watts without killing the radio.

Thanks

Phil D. Mills/NV4P, Pensacola, FL
NV4P/L - 146.46MHz, pl 100Hz.
IRLP Node 4629, EchoLink Node 46290
WIN System Affiliate #65



------------------------------------

--- IRLP-Owners YahooGroups List ---Yahoo! Groups Links



--
Dave Foran Internet ONLY: dave@hamnet.org
Cruise Missile Coordinates 41.36.978N 81.25.867W


Dave K9DC
 

It probably depends on what kind of power supply is in the node PC. If the node is 12v (13.8) powered, nearly anything will do. If is an AC supply you are probably better off with a UPS. But that depends upon how long you want it to run.

At my main repeater site (broadcast tower), I have an APC UPS installed (400W I think), that I got for free. It will run the node for several hours, although I have replaced the batteries a couple of times. No backup power on the repeater.

At my home, I am using an APC UPS on the node AND the repeater, plus I have an automatic standby generator connected to the public natural gas supply, so I only need minutes of run time out of the UPSs.

In my vehicle (motorhome) the node, router/cell modem and the repeater are all powered directly from 12V. They run on the vehicle house battery, which is a pair of 225 amp/hour 6V golf cart batteries. 200 watts of solar panels keep them charged if outside, or plugged in the wall if the vehicle is in the garage. I really have no idea how long that will run, because many other things in the vehicle share the 12v source, like inside lighting, furnace, fridge, TV, etc. If the sun is shining, likely to be indefinitely.

If you are planning to run on 12v for primary power, the object should be to first minimize the consumption of all components. A 12v node computer *can* consume as little as 10-15 watts. If you need a router, find one that runs from 12v directly (my Cradlepoint runs from 12v, as do many Linksys), probably 4-5 watts. Of course you need a repeater running from 12v also. My mobile Kenwood repeater consumes about 6-7 amps (95 watts) on transmit at 25 watts. On receive (idle) around 700 ma (10 watts). If you have a separate repeater controller, that would need to be added (my Kenwood does not need one). [Kinda nice that duplexers and isolators do not need power] Add it all up and factor in your transmit duty cycle and you can figure out how large a battery to look for, based upon your run time requirements.

Make sure you can adjust the output voltage of the power supply to be exactly at, or slightly above the spec'd float voltage for the battery. You do not want to overcharge the battery.

It sounds to me like you need one of those Samlex SEC-1223 switching power supplies. Very small and light, 23 amps continuous. Less than $100. Even though there is no external adjustment, there is a pot inside that you can precisely adjust the output voltage to whatever you need to keep the battery up. For most gel-cells that is probably 13.9 - 14.2, but you need to check the specs for the battery you choose. Pick out the battery you need for the run time you want. Visit your local Batteries Plus store, they are usually fairly knowledgeable, and have the printed information for the products they have (although their prices an often not the best).

-Dave K9DC

On Feb 20, 2009, at 11:40, Phil D. Mills/NV4P wrote:

What is everyone using for DC battery backup for the node computer,
router, modem, etc, in the event of a power failure? I'm looking for
something seamless that doesn't require an AC UPS. See my delimma,
below. Thanks for your time.

Phil/NV4P
Node 4629

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Battery power
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 10:34:31 -0600
From: Phil D. Mills/NV4P <phil@nv4p.com>
Reply-To: phil@nv4p.com
Organization: NV4P
To: WA4WKL <julian.harris@earthlink.net>, KG4KGW
<kneedeep1@hotmail.com>, W4PWB <kg4ung1@hotmail.com>, K6JSI
<k6jsi@winsystem.org>, KD4WCY <ellisdarius@bellsouth.net>, KG4DMB
<kg4dmb67@hotmail.com>



Good morning...

Just a quick note to let everyone know, I have lowered the transmitter
power of NV4P/L to 5 watts until an adequate (but not pricey) source of
DC voltage can be acquired or purchased soon. I discovered a couple of
days ago, that at its former power level of 25 watts, the radio's
display would dim and the fan would almost quit. Recharging the attached
marine battery did not help. I believe that the battery has just about
had it. My ultimate goal is to obtain at least a 30amp power supply, a
cheap but good quality deep cycle marine battery for backup, and some
sort of switching mechanism to move the radio, and required node
PC/router/cable modem, to the marine battery automatically, in the event
of an AC power failure in the future. (Thus bypassing all of the
equipment's 120vAC transformers and power supplies, as they only really
need 12vDC or less to run.) I do not want to have to rely on the
commercial mains to keep the node on the air, if at all possible. I've
been lucky to have the UPS serve the node PC and networking equipment,
and not have any prolonged power outages. If I have to build this
switching mechanism myself, I'll do it, but it will be something new for
me, with a steep learning curve, thus requiring a LOT of time.

Can someone let Rick KI4LSS know? I don't have his email address. I
think I covered the most frequent users with an interest to Pensacola.
Primary item of business here is getting the node radio a DC power
source so I can run more than just 5 watts without killing the radio.

Thanks

Phil D. Mills/NV4P, Pensacola, FL
NV4P/L - 146.46MHz, pl 100Hz.
IRLP Node 4629, EchoLink Node 46290
WIN System Affiliate #65


Mike Morris WA6ILQ <wa6ilq@...>
 

First, don't assume that you are going to have an internet connection
during a power fail. Some cable systems either never installed a
battery plant at their head end, or have not replaced the batteries
after they die.

Second of all, the average ham does not know how to take care
of a battery plant - be it a single battery or a room full of glass
jar Edison cells. Look at www.homepower.com - it's the we site
for Home Power magazine, the bible of the off-the-grid community.
It's published by Richard Perez N7BCR and Karen Perez KA7ETV
and they "walk the walk" as well as "talk the talk" - the entire
magazine is put together (including paste-ups) using off-the-grid
computers.
The magazine is published 6 times a year and their web site is
a fountain of information.

Third, the DC transfer problem has already been solved. Get a
12v power supply that can run the entire load, plus provide
enough amps to recharge the batteries in a decent amount of
time after a power failure. Your choice of a linear or a switcher,
but I tend to lean towards a linear. Astron is a well-known brand,
but their design lacks a few nice features, a few of which have
been covered on the Astron page at www.repeater-builder.com

Whatever source of 12v you use, feed it to a West Mountain
Radio PWRGate of a decent size (maybe a PG40S) and let
it switch the load from the Astron/Duracom/whatever to the
battery and back..

Third, if you can, use 12v loads exclusively. There are routers
that run off +12 directly - Linksys is one brad that has 12v models.
Most Mini-ITX based computers run off 12v directly, are very
efficient and make nice node computers. Via is one of the
names in that market.
Look here: <http://www.mini-itx.com/>;
Or here:<http://www.mini-box.com/site/index.html>;
Or here: <http://www.logicsupply.com/>;
This looks promising:
<http://damnsmalllinux.org/store/Mini_ITX_Systems/Mini_ITX_BareBones_Computer>;

Fourth, if your site has a generator, this article is of interest and
shows why you DON'T want an APC brand UPS:
<http://www.rwonline.com/article/74034>; and scroll down to the
section that starts with "On a different subject, awhile back we
had a discussion of running uninterruptible power supplies
with backup generators"...

Mike WA6ILQ

At 08:40 AM 02/20/09, you wrote:

What is everyone using for DC battery backup for the node computer,
router, modem, etc, in the event of a power failure? I'm looking for
something seamless that doesn't require an AC UPS. See my delimma,
below. Thanks for your time.

Phil/NV4P
Node 4629

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Battery power
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 10:34:31 -0600
From: Phil D. Mills/NV4P <<mailto:phil%40nv4p.com>phil@nv4p.com>
Reply-To: <mailto:phil%40nv4p.com>phil@nv4p.com
Organization: NV4P
To: WA4WKL
<<mailto:julian.harris%40earthlink.net>julian.harris@earthlink.net>, KG4KGW
<<mailto:kneedeep1%40hotmail.com>kneedeep1@hotmail.com>, W4PWB
<<mailto:kg4ung1%40hotmail.com>kg4ung1@hotmail.com>, K6JSI
<<mailto:k6jsi%40winsystem.org>k6jsi@winsystem.org>, KD4WCY
<<mailto:ellisdarius%40bellsouth.net>ellisdarius@bellsouth.net>, KG4DMB
<<mailto:kg4dmb67%40hotmail.com>kg4dmb67@hotmail.com>

Good morning...

Just a quick note to let everyone know, I have lowered the transmitter
power of NV4P/L to 5 watts until an adequate (but not pricey) source of
DC voltage can be acquired or purchased soon. I discovered a couple of
days ago, that at its former power level of 25 watts, the radio's
display would dim and the fan would almost quit. Recharging the attached
marine battery did not help. I believe that the battery has just about
had it. My ultimate goal is to obtain at least a 30amp power supply, a
cheap but good quality deep cycle marine battery for backup, and some
sort of switching mechanism to move the radio, and required node
PC/router/cable modem, to the marine battery automatically, in the event
of an AC power failure in the future. (Thus bypassing all of the
equipment's 120vAC transformers and power supplies, as they only really
need 12vDC or less to run.) I do not want to have to rely on the
commercial mains to keep the node on the air, if at all possible. I've
been lucky to have the UPS serve the node PC and networking equipment,
and not have any prolonged power outages. If I have to build this
switching mechanism myself, I'll do it, but it will be something new for
me, with a steep learning curve, thus requiring a LOT of time.

Can someone let Rick KI4LSS know? I don't have his email address. I
think I covered the most frequent users with an interest to Pensacola.
Primary item of business here is getting the node radio a DC power
source so I can run more than just 5 watts without killing the radio.

Thanks

Phil D. Mills/NV4P, Pensacola, FL
NV4P/L - 146.46MHz, pl 100Hz.
IRLP Node 4629, EchoLink Node 46290
WIN System Affiliate #65


Charles J Killian
 

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Not withstanding my previous post, Nate is absolutely correct.

Chuck...
WB6YOK

Nate Duehr wrote:
A automatic-starting generator for all power at the site, including the five
Amateur and two public-safety repeaters at the site. :-)

(Probably not what you wanted to hear.)

Batteries are a pain in the ass.

Nate WY0X

-----Original Message-----
From: irlp@yahoogroups.com [mailto:irlp@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Phil
D. Mills/NV4P
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 9:41 AM
To: irlp@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [irlp] Battery power for Node 4629

What is everyone using for DC battery backup for the node computer,
router, modem, etc, in the event of a power failure? I'm looking for
something seamless that doesn't require an AC UPS. See my delimma,
below. Thanks for your time.

Phil/NV4P
Node 4629


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Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

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Nate Duehr <nate@...>
 

A automatic-starting generator for all power at the site, including the five
Amateur and two public-safety repeaters at the site. :-)

(Probably not what you wanted to hear.)

Batteries are a pain in the ass.

Nate WY0X

-----Original Message-----
From: irlp@yahoogroups.com [mailto:irlp@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Phil
D. Mills/NV4P
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 9:41 AM
To: irlp@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [irlp] Battery power for Node 4629

What is everyone using for DC battery backup for the node computer,
router, modem, etc, in the event of a power failure? I'm looking for
something seamless that doesn't require an AC UPS. See my delimma,
below. Thanks for your time.

Phil/NV4P
Node 4629


Phil D. Mills/NV4P <phil@...>
 

Thanks for the suggestions, guys. I'll have to take a look around when I get some time, and see what I can come up with.

Phil

Dave Gingrich wrote:


It probably depends on what kind of power supply is in the node PC. If
the node is 12v (13.8) powered, nearly anything will do. If is an AC
supply you are probably better off with a UPS. But that depends upon
how long you want it to run.

At my main repeater site (broadcast tower), I have an APC UPS
installed (400W I think), that I got for free. It will run the node
for several hours, although I have replaced the batteries a couple of
times. No backup power on the repeater.

At my home, I am using an APC UPS on the node AND the repeater, plus I
have an automatic standby generator connected to the public natural
gas supply, so I only need minutes of run time out of the UPSs.

In my vehicle (motorhome) the node, router/cell modem and the repeater
are all powered directly from 12V. They run on the vehicle house
battery, which is a pair of 225 amp/hour 6V golf cart batteries. 200
watts of solar panels keep them charged if outside, or plugged in the
wall if the vehicle is in the garage. I really have no idea how long
that will run, because many other things in the vehicle share the 12v
source, like inside lighting, furnace, fridge, TV, etc. If the sun is
shining, likely to be indefinitely.

If you are planning to run on 12v for primary power, the object should
be to first minimize the consumption of all components. A 12v node
computer *can* consume as little as 10-15 watts. If you need a router,
find one that runs from 12v directly (my Cradlepoint runs from 12v, as
do many Linksys), probably 4-5 watts. Of course you need a repeater
running from 12v also. My mobile Kenwood repeater consumes about 6-7
amps (95 watts) on transmit at 25 watts. On receive (idle) around 700
ma (10 watts). If you have a separate repeater controller, that would
need to be added (my Kenwood does not need one). [Kinda nice that
duplexers and isolators do not need power] Add it all up and factor in
your transmit duty cycle and you can figure out how large a battery to
look for, based upon your run time requirements.

Make sure you can adjust the output voltage of the power supply to be
exactly at, or slightly above the spec'd float voltage for the
battery. You do not want to overcharge the battery.

It sounds to me like you need one of those Samlex SEC-1223 switching
power supplies. Very small and light, 23 amps continuous. Less than
$100. Even though there is no external adjustment, there is a pot
inside that you can precisely adjust the output voltage to whatever
you need to keep the battery up. For most gel-cells that is probably
13.9 - 14.2, but you need to check the specs for the battery you
choose. Pick out the battery you need for the run time you want.
Visit your local Batteries Plus store, they are usually fairly
knowledgeable, and have the printed information for the products they
have (although their prices an often not the best).

-Dave K9DC

On Feb 20, 2009, at 11:40, Phil D. Mills/NV4P wrote:

What is everyone using for DC battery backup for the node computer,
router, modem, etc, in the event of a power failure? I'm looking for
something seamless that doesn't require an AC UPS. See my delimma,
below. Thanks for your time.

Phil/NV4P
Node 4629

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Battery power
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 10:34:31 -0600
From: Phil D. Mills/NV4P <phil@nv4p.com <mailto:phil%40nv4p.com>>
Reply-To: phil@nv4p.com <mailto:phil%40nv4p.com>
Organization: NV4P
To: WA4WKL <julian.harris@earthlink.net
<mailto:julian.harris%40earthlink.net>>, KG4KGW
<kneedeep1@hotmail.com <mailto:kneedeep1%40hotmail.com>>, W4PWB
<kg4ung1@hotmail.com <mailto:kg4ung1%40hotmail.com>>, K6JSI
<k6jsi@winsystem.org <mailto:k6jsi%40winsystem.org>>, KD4WCY
<ellisdarius@bellsouth.net <mailto:ellisdarius%40bellsouth.net>>, KG4DMB
<kg4dmb67@hotmail.com <mailto:kg4dmb67%40hotmail.com>>



Good morning...

Just a quick note to let everyone know, I have lowered the transmitter
power of NV4P/L to 5 watts until an adequate (but not pricey) source
of
DC voltage can be acquired or purchased soon. I discovered a couple of
days ago, that at its former power level of 25 watts, the radio's
display would dim and the fan would almost quit. Recharging the
attached
marine battery did not help. I believe that the battery has just about
had it. My ultimate goal is to obtain at least a 30amp power supply, a
cheap but good quality deep cycle marine battery for backup, and some
sort of switching mechanism to move the radio, and required node
PC/router/cable modem, to the marine battery automatically, in the
event
of an AC power failure in the future. (Thus bypassing all of the
equipment's 120vAC transformers and power supplies, as they only
really
need 12vDC or less to run.) I do not want to have to rely on the
commercial mains to keep the node on the air, if at all possible. I've
been lucky to have the UPS serve the node PC and networking equipment,
and not have any prolonged power outages. If I have to build this
switching mechanism myself, I'll do it, but it will be something new
for
me, with a steep learning curve, thus requiring a LOT of time.

Can someone let Rick KI4LSS know? I don't have his email address. I
think I covered the most frequent users with an interest to Pensacola.
Primary item of business here is getting the node radio a DC power
source so I can run more than just 5 watts without killing the radio.

Thanks

Phil D. Mills/NV4P, Pensacola, FL
NV4P/L - 146.46MHz, pl 100Hz.
IRLP Node 4629, EchoLink Node 46290
WIN System Affiliate #65


 

At 03:56 AM 2/21/2009, you wrote:
I see you are using a cable modem.
At my location, if we loose commercial mains we loose cable service due
to "head end" cable system amplifier (about 1/2 mile away) loosing
power.
That's interesting. 3 weeks ago, much of Melbourne lost power, and I was in the middle of one of these large areas. Cable service stayed up during the entire outage (I was surfing the net the whole time).

I haven't yet got backup power for my node PC, but I intend to replace the batteries in one of my UPSs. The UPS is 700VA, and the PC is an older one, so it should last at least 90 minutes on the batteries (last PC did, with the cable modem running off the UPS as well - now the cable modem is on another backup circuit).


How does your cable service act when you loose power ?
Only one way to find out - laptop, cable modem on emergency power and wait for an outage. ;)

73 de VK3JED / VK3IRL
http://vkradio.com


 

At 06:01 AM 2/21/2009, you wrote:

If you are planning to run on 12v for primary power, the object should
be to first minimize the consumption of all components. A 12v node
computer *can* consume as little as 10-15 watts. If you need a router,
find one that runs from 12v directly (my Cradlepoint runs from 12v, as
do many Linksys), probably 4-5 watts. Of course you need a repeater
running from 12v also. My mobile Kenwood repeater consumes about 6-7
amps (95 watts) on transmit at 25 watts. On receive (idle) around 700
My setup is evolving along similar lines. I have a 40 amp switchmode power supply for my primary AC. This is connected to a 50Ah SLA battery via a solid state changeover switch. The output of the power supply has been tweaked up slightly to allow for the voltage drop of the Shottky diode in the changeover switch. The switch also provides charging current for the battery from the power supply.

The cable modem and router are powered by a 240V inverter. I could probably power the cable modem directly off 13.8V, but itg was provided by the cable company, and I don't want to go screwing around inside, in case something breaks and then I have to get it fixed. Too many questions asked. Unfortunately, the router runs off 5V, but it at least uses a switchmode power supply.The repeater itself runs directly off 13.8V, and has similar power consumption to yours (it's a 25W system also).

The node PC currently has no battery backup, but I am going to buy a couple of replacement SLAs for one of the 700VA inverters I have. With only the node PC running off it, it should manage at least 90 minutes run time. Down the track, I wouldn't mind some sort of generator backup.

a mini ITX PC would be nice, but that's another thing on that long wish list. ;)

73 de VK3JED / VK3IRL
http://vkradio.com


Randy Hammock <rhammock@...>
 

On Feb 20, 2009, at 7:56 PM, Tony Langdon, VK3JED wrote:

How does your cable service act when you loose power ?
Only one way to find out - laptop, cable modem on emergency power and
wait for an outage. ;)
Here in my area of Los Angeles, the cable company has battery backup; however, for extended periods of power outage (when the power is out for days due to Santa Ana winds), I've seen them park service vehicles at power insertion points and power the system from generators.

--
Randy Hammock KC6HUR
http://kc6hur.net/~rhammock/
http://irlp.kc6hur.net/
If there are no horses in heaven, then when I die, I want to go where they went.