Topics

PGP Key ring key problem

Dan Sellmeyer
 

Can someone please help..

I can't connect to another node or reflector. It continously says my PGP key is not Vaild and if trouble persist to send email to installs@....  
I have a e-mail sent into intstalls@... with no responses yet..
Can someone re-validate it ?
Call : W0APQ

Node number:3619 

 

Usually installs gets to these things pretty quickly, hang in there... they'll get ya reset soon.


>< Dave Parks ><
WB8ODF@...
http://wb8odf.com



On Saturday, January 11, 2020, 9:06:19 PM EST, Dan Sellmeyer <dsellmeyer@...> wrote:


Can someone please help..

I can't connect to another node or reflector. It continously says my PGP key is not Vaild and if trouble persist to send email to installs@....  
I have a e-mail sent into intstalls@... with no responses yet..
Can someone re-validate it ?
Call : W0APQ

Node number:3619 

David McAnally
 

Anything interesting returned when you run troubleshoot-irlp from user repeater? I believe one of the tests is for the pgp key. 

David M.
WD5M


On Sat, Jan 11, 2020 at 8:06 PM Dan Sellmeyer <dsellmeyer@...> wrote:
Can someone please help..

I can't connect to another node or reflector. It continously says my PGP key is not Vaild and if trouble persist to send email to installs@....  
I have a e-mail sent into intstalls@... with no responses yet..
Can someone re-validate it ?
Call : W0APQ

Node number:3619 

k9dc
 

Node 3619 was removed from the network because we found that it was running a version of IRLP that is not compatible with the network (HAMvoip). All stations running that package were permanently removed from the network a few days ago.

--
Dave K9DC, IRLP Installation Team

On Jan 11, 2020, at 21:06, Dan Sellmeyer <dsellmeyer@...> wrote:

Can someone please help..

I can't connect to another node or reflector. It continously says my PGP key is not Vaild and if trouble persist to send email to installs@....
I have a e-mail sent into intstalls@... with no responses yet..
Can someone re-validate it ?
Call : W0APQ

Node number:3619

Dan Sellmeyer
 

So... If I hook back up my old computer with the IRLP board in it "OR" My board I bought for a raspberry pi can it be validated ??  Do I have to do a full re-install ? I would like to keep my old node number of 3619. I didn't know this would be such a problem....

k9dc
 

You will have to perform a NEW installation on regular IRLP hardware. If you want to recover 3619, contact installs@ irlp.net for assistance. They must be engaged BEFORE you do anything, if you would like to recover your old number.

-k9dc

On Jan 11, 2020, at 22:30, Dan Sellmeyer <dsellmeyer@...> wrote:

So... If I hook back up my old computer with the IRLP board in it "OR" My board I bought for a raspberry pi can it be validated ?? Do I have to do a full re-install ? I would like to keep my old node number of 3619. I didn't know this would be such a problem....

Richard Hyde
 

Yep... It would be nice to have been notified... Instead of your repeater going down in the middle of an emergency EOC net...  


On Sat, Jan 11, 2020, 10:30 PM Dan Sellmeyer <dsellmeyer@...> wrote:
So... If I hook back up my old computer with the IRLP board in it "OR" My board I bought for a raspberry pi can it be validated ??  Do I have to do a full re-install ? I would like to keep my old node number of 3619. I didn't know this would be such a problem....

k9dc
 

On Jan 12, 2020, at 00:33, Richard Hyde <@KE4GJG> wrote:

Yep... It would be nice to have been notified... Instead of your repeater going down in the middle of an emergency EOC net…
Crossover links into IRLP from other networks have always been prohibited by IRLP policy, unless done at a Reflector. So you should not have been surprised.

The problem caused by the HAMvoip package was that it allowed folks from non-IRLP networks to dial in to IRLP. This in effect, reduced the effectiveness of our security policy. Also many of the non-IRLP networks had policies inconsistent with the RF-required end-point policy of IRLP. The EchoIRLP package for example, was designed to allow node participation in both the IRLP and Echolink networks, yet was specifically designed to prevent Echolink stations to enter the IRLP Network (and vice versa).

At the same time some Reflectors were modified to also be Echolink Conference bridges. Unfortunately that has fallen from favor a bit because now Echolink charges an annual fee to operate a conference bridge.

HAMvoip also seems to have created an informal network of passing around IRLP Boards so folks could surreptitiously obtain keys without buying the IRLP hardware. Then harvesting the PGP keys for use in an unauthorized software package such as HAMvoip.

We have been aware of this activity for quite some time (couple of years), but we kind of hoped it would go away and not cause any problems, or not be that popular. Unfortunately we have begun to receive complaints from Reflector admins about possible mis-use of the network. Therefore an automated routine was created to scan the network and identify nodes running the HAMvoip package, and remove those keys.

We are also working on a method of connecting Allstar Link conferences and designated IRLP Reflectors together in the network, much like the way Echolink Conferences and IRLP Reflectors are shared today. I am not sure that will come to pass, but it may be easier than we think. Stay tuned.

-k9dc

David McGough
 

Dear Dave, K9DC,

I don't think I've previously talked with you. However, I have some comments. My e-mail box is full of messages from angry, innocent HamVoIP / IRLP users.

Intentionally pulling keys from any network with no notice WILL NOT fly in today's world. There is already established legal precedent in that regard, specifically in the ham radio world.
Think about the ramifications if your unannounced action had crippled IRLP nodes or networks during an emergency?

HamVoIP does not condone nor support any groups attempting to "harvest" IRLP nodes or keys. If some unscrupulous persons attempt to obtain keys, claiming they purchased hardware where they did not, we have no knowledge of nor condone those activities.  However, if this is all about purchasing something, there is a really simple solution: IRLP should just charge an acceptably large fee to obtain or transfer a key to a different call sign! This is a simple problem to solve!

I am hopeful that IRLP REFLECTOR owners who had ANY problems with known HamVoIP users will contact me directly (kb4fxc .at. gmail.com). I'd like to hear more details about who was causing problems and what kind of problems??  Was it not possible to simply block those individual IRLP nodes??

While I realize legacy policies may exist, I'm a bit baffled as to why cross-linking between networks is of any significance at the individual node level? The HamVoIP software DOES NOT by default provide an automatic gateway mechanism. Bridges between networks can only be established or allowed by the node owner / control-op.  Easily enough, this similarly could be done with stock IRLP hardware.

Having been a ham for almost 40 years, I firmly believe in keeping the RADIO in ham radio. However, we ALL need to realize that this year is 2020. It is not the world of 2000. Nor the world of 1980.  Laws regarding ham radio have changed and been relaxed globally. We all must focus on the future, evolving as changes happen, otherwise we'll end up simply as pages of history.


73, David KB4FXC

Gary - AG0N
 

On Jan 12, 2020, at 15:12, David McGough <kb4fxc@...> wrote:

Intentionally pulling keys from any network with no notice WILL NOT fly in today's world.
It certainly will fly. Those who built the network, and those who over the years have joined the network did so, knowing that ONLY IRLP nodes will be attached to our IRLP network with the quality that IRLP promises. Having listened for hours many times to an experimental reflector where IRLP, Echolink, and Allstar VoIP networks are interconnected, I can only say that the audio quality that comes from that system is precisely the reason that other systems are not allowed on normal reflectors. It’s also why experimental reflectors came to be. When you connect to one, you know that other nodes may not subscribe to the higher qualities and control found with IRLP.

Gary - AG0N

Phil Zocco
 

That is part of the reasoning I had with rebuilding my node to the latest version of Debian: beautiful audio and no Echolink. In all my years of IRLP (almost 18 years), audio is just great.

I thought about EchoIRLP but I had enough of listening to shitty audio. RF in. RF out. Radio by radio.

These are the IRLP rules. Love 'em of leave 'em.

And thanks to VE7LTD and ALL involved to keep IRLP as it should be.

73,

Phil N1BOW
Node 5960
AMT MP 113.6
Niantic, CT USA Earth

-----Original Message-----
From: IRLP@irlp.groups.io [mailto:IRLP@irlp.groups.io] On Behalf Of AG0N-3055
Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2020 6:37 PM
To: IRLP@irlp.groups.io
Subject: Re: [IRLP] PGP Key ring key problem



On Jan 12, 2020, at 15:12, David McGough <kb4fxc@...> wrote:

Intentionally pulling keys from any network with no notice WILL NOT fly in today's world.
It certainly will fly. Those who built the network, and those who over the years have joined the network did so, knowing that ONLY IRLP nodes will be attached to our IRLP network with the quality that IRLP promises. Having listened for hours many times to an experimental reflector where IRLP, Echolink, and Allstar VoIP networks are interconnected, I can only say that the audio quality that comes from that system is precisely the reason that other systems are not allowed on normal reflectors. It�s also why experimental reflectors came to be. When you connect to one, you know that other nodes may not subscribe to the higher qualities and control found with IRLP.

Gary - AG0N

K1IMD
 

All Audio issues/Audio Level Standards/Technical Requirements/Quality Side/EchoLink aside:

IRLP = Internet RADIO Linking Project
To give you an idea about IRLP, as those early adopters of IRLP may recall, IRLP was built around the days before broadband Internet was widely available.  Many early contacts I had in England were on dial-up phone lines at 8K GSM because the cost of data was so pricey.  Broadband did not exist in most homes let alone radio sites and why IRLP supports a handshake for codec (8kGSM or wider) as well as PGP authentication.

An other thing that needs to be understood is that IRLP is a global network and other countries outside the US do not have the same "rules" as the US FCC Part 97.  I clearly remember a discussion back in 2000-2002 about the headaches that another country (it may have been Australia I don't remember) had to go through to allow IRLP to be used at all.  One very large selling point to their government agency was that there was a radio on the other end and there was a licensed amateur operating the radio.  It would be pretty hard for some non amateur to just hop on the network with the PGP authentication unlike another amateur network I know of.  I believe there was a huge concern about 3rd party traffic... FYI some countries don't support 3rd party traffic at all or have very very strict rules concerning 3rd party traffic.  For the above reasons, it is why IRLP became a globally accepted network.

And finally, those that govern/create a network create guidelines, those that join the network must abide by the guidelines if they chose not to; they are free to leave and go build their own network that is more agreeable to them.

Just because we can cross band, cross mode, cross network, transcode, translate, bridge, conference does not mean that we should.

73
Jon
K1IMD
Nodes: 448, 449, 487, 4474, 4689, 4677
Node Built: 448, 449,487, 436, 406, 4474, 4680, 4819, 4677, 4689, 4878, 4411, 4309

On 1/12/2020 19:47, Phil Zocco wrote:
That is part of the reasoning I had with rebuilding my node to the latest version of Debian: beautiful audio and no Echolink. In all my years of IRLP (almost 18 years), audio is just great.

I thought about EchoIRLP but I had enough of listening to shitty audio. RF in. RF out. Radio by radio.

These are the IRLP rules. Love 'em of leave 'em.

And thanks to VE7LTD and ALL involved to keep IRLP as it should be.

73,

Phil N1BOW
Node 5960
AMT MP 113.6
Niantic, CT USA Earth


-----Original Message-----
From: IRLP@irlp.groups.io [mailto:IRLP@irlp.groups.io] On Behalf Of AG0N-3055
Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2020 6:37 PM
To: IRLP@irlp.groups.io
Subject: Re: [IRLP] PGP Key ring key problem



On Jan 12, 2020, at 15:12, David McGough <kb4fxc@...> wrote:

Intentionally pulling keys from any network with no notice WILL NOT fly in today's world.
It certainly will fly.  Those who built the network, and those who over the years have joined the network did so, knowing that ONLY IRLP nodes will be attached to our IRLP network with the quality that IRLP promises.  Having listened for hours many times to an experimental reflector where IRLP, Echolink, and Allstar VoIP networks are interconnected, I can only say that the audio quality that comes from that system is precisely the reason that other systems are not allowed on normal reflectors.  It�s also why experimental reflectors came to be.  When you connect to one, you know that other nodes may not subscribe to the higher qualities and control found with IRLP.

Gary - AG0N






k9dc
 

On Jan 12, 2020, at 17:12, David McGough <kb4fxc@...> wrote:

While I realize legacy policies may exist, I'm a bit baffled as to why cross-linking between networks is of any significance at the individual node level?
This is the only paragraph that warrants a response.

The policy is what it is. It doesn’t matter why or that you do not understand or are baffled. Crosslinks to other networks are simply not permitted. It simply means you cannot do that within IRLP. Any software hacks that allow cross linking products will be rejected from the network. Hamvoip is one such product.

Crosslinks ARE allowed on Reflectors because they are always and only destinations for calls. To further that type of operation, EXPerimental nodes were created. They allow literally anything to be connected. But the ability to use them is completely optional to each node owner. There is no security (PGP) provided by IRLP, but you can devise anything you want.

-k9dc

Dan Sellmeyer
 

Had to way in on this LASTLY.. 

I HAD a great node with ALLSTAR and IRLP working AWSOME.. But not anymore..

After a month of work and frustration I am finally back on just IRLP. WOW is all I can say.

Ham radio.. The broken unlinked network that politics and peoples fat wallets profit from and complain about. Can't wait til our net converts itself to ALLSTAR with ALL the Cool features it has. Speaking time every hour, Current weather conditions and even playing the ARRL audio news... just to mention a few.

I thought hams worked hard together to be able to communicate with each other and bridge networks.. But to no surprise its really about CONTROL, POLITICS and MONEY....

Dan Sellmeyer
WB0YYE
Operator of Node 3619 in Lincoln Nebraska

Teton Amateur Radio Repeater Association (TARRA)
 

Hello Dan,

If you hate this system so much, why did you spend a month to get it back working again. If you love Allstar so much, you should have spent your month getting it working instead.

When you mention "peoples fat wallets" I think you misspelled here. It would be "flat wallets". There are several people who have put these systems together with their own money for us to use (IRLP & Allstar versions). I don't think for the IRLP side of things there is any money being made if you just want to buy the required board. You can also spend just as much for the hardware for an Allstar system if you want to.

Let me ask, how much have you been paying the IRLP system people for use of their system? When you consider all of the infrastructure involved, reflectors and other associated equipment around the world to make it work, that doesn't come for free. Both Daves give a lot of their own time to keep the system going and just as importantly to help support us users. They could very well charge us a user fee as well as a support fee when we need help. They don't. And you are complaining about all the money they are making with the system.

"ALLSTAR with ALL the Cool features it has. Speaking time every hour, Current weather conditions and even playing the ARRL audio news... just to mention a few." Well, the last I knew all of those features and others are available with IRLP "just to mention a few". They may not be a part of the original setup, but available. There is a lot of support from other users and many of them are very good at scripting. They can help with all of those things and more. So I don't think it is just an Allstar thing. 

If you are that unhappy with IRLP and how well the system works, how good it sounds, and how secure it is, then then all I can say is Bye Bye!

Mick - W7CAT
Node 3464

----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Sellmeyer
To: IRLP@irlp.groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 12:48:10 PM
Subject: Re: [IRLP] PGP Key ring key problem

> Had to way in on this LASTLY..
>
> I HAD a great node with ALLSTAR and IRLP working AWSOME.. But not anymore..
>
> After a month of work and frustration I am finally back on just IRLP. WOW is all I can say.
>
> Ham radio.. The broken unlinked network that politics and peoples fat wallets profit from and complain about. Can't wait til our net converts itself to ALLSTAR with ALL the Cool features it has. Speaking time every hour, Current weather conditions and even playing the ARRL audio news... just to mention a few.
>
> I thought hams worked hard together to be able to communicate with each other and bridge networks.. But to no surprise its really about CONTROL, POLITICS and MONEY....
>
> Dan Sellmeyer
> WB0YYE
> Operator of Node 3619 in Lincoln Nebraska
>
>
>
>
--

Gary - AG0N
 

On Feb 19, 2020, at 12:48, Dan Sellmeyer <dsellmeyer@...> wrote:

But to no surprise its really about CONTROL, POLITICS and MONEY…
No, it is about quality, and always has been. Quality of operation, as well as audio.

Gary - AG0N

Craig - K1BDX - Node 8724
 

On Feb 19, Dan Sellmeyer wrote:

But to no surprise its really about CONTROL, POLITICS and MONEY…

On Feb 19, Gary Mcduffie AG0N wrote:

No, it is about quality, and always has been. Quality of operation, as well
as audio.
I agree with Gary. It is about Quality of operation - clear and
reliable audio without any unauthorized cross links just showing up
with no advance warning or permission.

Dan, your claim that IRLP nodes cannot be crosslinked to Allstar is
simply FALSE.

It was 11 years ago (Feb 2009) when David Cameron created a brilliant
compromise - experimental node numbers. Using an experimental node
number you can cross link any IRLP node to the Allstar network anytime
you desire without compromising the quality of all the other IRLP
nodes or compromising the regular reflectors. If you wish to
crosslink multiple IRLP nodes to Allstar you can also do that with an
experimental reflector. If you don't know how to build an
experimental reflector, I will be glad to help you set one up.

So, Dan, there are solutions to your problems if you are willing to
put aside the slander and accusations and work with the people who are
willing to help you.

Craig - K1BDX - Node 8724
 

Yesterday I was listing to a very popular net being conducted over on allstar.

A few minutes into the net, all of a sudden, every transmission was
being heard TWICE.

Needless to say, the net was completely disrupted for about 15 minutes
while everyone was asking what the heck was going on.

Finally someone found the problem. A knucklehead with a ham license
and an allstar node was cross linking the echo reflector into the net.
This happened with no warning and no authorization by the net control
station and the operation of the net was completely disrupted for a
quarter of an hour.

This is why Allstar will never be anything more than a toy and I would
be embarrassed to let Allstar be involved in linking repeaters for any
emergency communications activities.

This is not the first time someone with an allstar node has completely
disrupted an ongoing conversation by unauthorized crosslinking.

I tried to post some of my concerns over on the hamvoip group but
David McGough blocked my message. Apparently only messages that
slander IRLP are allowed over there. As this issue/conflict over IRLP
keys unfolds, I am becoming less and less impressed with the allstar
system and the integrity of the people run it.

Thanks, David Cameron for doing your best to keep that foolishness out
of the IRLP network.

On 2/19/20, Dan Sellmeyer <dsellmeyer@...> wrote:
Had to way in on this LASTLY..

I HAD a great node with ALLSTAR and IRLP working AWSOME.. But not anymore..

After a month of work and frustration I am finally back on just IRLP. WOW is
all I can say.

Ham radio.. The broken unlinked network that politics and peoples fat
wallets profit from and complain about. Can't wait til our net converts
itself to ALLSTAR with ALL the Cool features it has. Speaking time every
hour, Current weather conditions and even playing the ARRL audio news...
just to mention a few.

I thought hams worked hard together to be able to communicate with each
other and bridge networks.. But to no surprise its really about CONTROL,
POLITICS and MONEY....

Dan Sellmeyer
WB0YYE

Teton Amateur Radio Repeater Association (TARRA)
 

Reminds me of EchoLink with all of the bad audio levels & local repeater IDs and voice announcements. Very few that ever seem to be setup right. Not sure how EchoLink ever came to be okay to link to. Probably a good thing it is going away with the new versions of the OS.

Mick - W7CAT
Node 3464

----- Original Message -----
From: Craig - K1BDX - Node 8724
To: IRLP@irlp.groups.io
Sent: Saturday, February 29, 2020 08:00:30 AM
Subject: Re: [IRLP] PGP Key ring key problem

> Yesterday I was listing to a very popular net being conducted over on allstar.
>
> A few minutes into the net, all of a sudden, every transmission was
> being heard TWICE.
>
> Needless to say, the net was completely disrupted for about 15 minutes
> while everyone was asking what the heck was going on.
>
> Finally someone found the problem. A knucklehead with a ham license
> and an allstar node was cross linking the echo reflector into the net.
> This happened with no warning and no authorization by the net control
> station and the operation of the net was completely disrupted for a
> quarter of an hour.
>
> This is why Allstar will never be anything more than a toy and I would
> be embarrassed to let Allstar be involved in linking repeaters for any
> emergency communications activities.
>
> This is not the first time someone with an allstar node has completely
> disrupted an ongoing conversation by unauthorized crosslinking.
>
> I tried to post some of my concerns over on the hamvoip group but
> David McGough blocked my message. Apparently only messages that
> slander IRLP are allowed over there. As this issue/conflict over IRLP
> keys unfolds, I am becoming less and less impressed with the allstar
> system and the integrity of the people run it.
>
> Thanks, David Cameron for doing your best to keep that foolishness out
> of the IRLP network.
>
>
> On 2/19/20, Dan Sellmeyer wrote:
> > Had to way in on this LASTLY..
> >
> > I HAD a great node with ALLSTAR and IRLP working AWSOME.. But not anymore..
> >
> > After a month of work and frustration I am finally back on just IRLP. WOW is
> > all I can say.
> >
> > Ham radio.. The broken unlinked network that politics and peoples fat
> > wallets profit from and complain about. Can't wait til our net converts
> > itself to ALLSTAR with ALL the Cool features it has. Speaking time every
> > hour, Current weather conditions and even playing the ARRL audio news...
> > just to mention a few.
> >
> > I thought hams worked hard together to be able to communicate with each
> > other and bridge networks.. But to no surprise its really about CONTROL,
> > POLITICS and MONEY....
> >
> > Dan Sellmeyer
> > WB0YYE
>
>
>
>
--

 

0

Teton Amateur Radio Repeater Association (TARRA)
 

Sorry if I caused any confusion. What I should have said is that it looks like EchoIRLP may be going away because of issues with the latest OS. I didn't mean to imply that EchoLink, Allstar, or HamVOIP were going away.

Mick - W7CAT
Node 3464

----- Original Message -----
From: "Teton Amateur Radio Repeater Association (TARRA)"
To: IRLP@irlp.groups.io
Sent: Saturday, February 29, 2020 09:48:16 AM
Subject: Re: [IRLP] PGP Key ring key problem

>
> Reminds me of EchoLink with all of the bad audio levels & local repeater IDs and voice announcements. Very few that ever seem to be setup right. Not sure how EchoLink ever came to be okay to link to. Probably a good thing it is going away with the new versions of the OS.
>
> Mick - W7CAT Node 3464 ----- Original Message ----- From: Craig - K1BDX - Node 8724 To: IRLP@irlp.groups.io Sent: Saturday, February 29, 2020 08:00:30 AM Subject: Re: [IRLP] PGP Key ring key problem > Yesterday I was listing to a very popular net being conducted over on allstar. > > A few minutes into the net, all of a sudden, every transmission was > being heard TWICE. > > Needless to say, the net was completely disrupted for about 15 minutes > while everyone was asking what the heck was going on. > > Finally someone found the problem. A knucklehead with a ham license > and an allstar node was cross linking the echo reflector into the net. > This happened with no warning and no authorization by the net control > station and the operation of the net was completely disrupted for a > quarter of an hour. > > This is why Allstar will never be anything more than a toy and I would > be embarrassed to let Allstar be involved in linking repeaters for any > emergency communications activities. > > This is not the first time someone with an allstar node has completely > disrupted an ongoing conversation by unauthorized crosslinking. > > I tried to post some of my concerns over on the hamvoip group but > David McGough blocked my message. Apparently only messages that > slander IRLP are allowed over there. As this issue/conflict over IRLP > keys unfolds, I am becoming less and less impressed with the allstar > system and the integrity of the people run it. > > Thanks, David Cameron for doing your best to keep that foolishness out > of the IRLP network. > > > On 2/19/20, Dan Sellmeyer wrote: > > Had to way in on this LASTLY.. > > > > I HAD a great node with ALLSTAR and IRLP working AWSOME.. But not anymore.. > > > > After a month of work and frustration I am finally back on just IRLP. WOW is > > all I can say. > > > > Ham radio.. The broken unlinked network that politics and peoples fat > > wallets profit from and complain about. Can't wait til our net converts > > itself to ALLSTAR with ALL the Cool features it has. Speaking time every > > hour, Current weather conditions and even playing the ARRL audio news... > > just to mention a few. > > > > I thought hams worked hard together to be able to communicate with each > > other and bridge networks.. But to no surprise its really about CONTROL, > > POLITICS and MONEY.... > > > > Dan Sellmeyer > > WB0YYE > > > >
> --
>
> ? >
--

 

0