Topics

PGP Key ring key problem

Dan Sellmeyer
 

Can someone please help..

I can't connect to another node or reflector. It continously says my PGP key is not Vaild and if trouble persist to send email to installs@....  
I have a e-mail sent into intstalls@... with no responses yet..
Can someone re-validate it ?
Call : W0APQ

Node number:3619 

 

Usually installs gets to these things pretty quickly, hang in there... they'll get ya reset soon.


>< Dave Parks ><
WB8ODF@...
http://wb8odf.com



On Saturday, January 11, 2020, 9:06:19 PM EST, Dan Sellmeyer <dsellmeyer@...> wrote:


Can someone please help..

I can't connect to another node or reflector. It continously says my PGP key is not Vaild and if trouble persist to send email to installs@....  
I have a e-mail sent into intstalls@... with no responses yet..
Can someone re-validate it ?
Call : W0APQ

Node number:3619 

David McAnally
 

Anything interesting returned when you run troubleshoot-irlp from user repeater? I believe one of the tests is for the pgp key. 

David M.
WD5M


On Sat, Jan 11, 2020 at 8:06 PM Dan Sellmeyer <dsellmeyer@...> wrote:
Can someone please help..

I can't connect to another node or reflector. It continously says my PGP key is not Vaild and if trouble persist to send email to installs@....  
I have a e-mail sent into intstalls@... with no responses yet..
Can someone re-validate it ?
Call : W0APQ

Node number:3619 

k9dc
 

Node 3619 was removed from the network because we found that it was running a version of IRLP that is not compatible with the network (HAMvoip). All stations running that package were permanently removed from the network a few days ago.

--
Dave K9DC, IRLP Installation Team

On Jan 11, 2020, at 21:06, Dan Sellmeyer <dsellmeyer@...> wrote:

Can someone please help..

I can't connect to another node or reflector. It continously says my PGP key is not Vaild and if trouble persist to send email to installs@....
I have a e-mail sent into intstalls@... with no responses yet..
Can someone re-validate it ?
Call : W0APQ

Node number:3619

Dan Sellmeyer
 

So... If I hook back up my old computer with the IRLP board in it "OR" My board I bought for a raspberry pi can it be validated ??  Do I have to do a full re-install ? I would like to keep my old node number of 3619. I didn't know this would be such a problem....

k9dc
 

You will have to perform a NEW installation on regular IRLP hardware. If you want to recover 3619, contact installs@ irlp.net for assistance. They must be engaged BEFORE you do anything, if you would like to recover your old number.

-k9dc

On Jan 11, 2020, at 22:30, Dan Sellmeyer <dsellmeyer@...> wrote:

So... If I hook back up my old computer with the IRLP board in it "OR" My board I bought for a raspberry pi can it be validated ?? Do I have to do a full re-install ? I would like to keep my old node number of 3619. I didn't know this would be such a problem....

Richard Hyde
 

Yep... It would be nice to have been notified... Instead of your repeater going down in the middle of an emergency EOC net...  


On Sat, Jan 11, 2020, 10:30 PM Dan Sellmeyer <dsellmeyer@...> wrote:
So... If I hook back up my old computer with the IRLP board in it "OR" My board I bought for a raspberry pi can it be validated ??  Do I have to do a full re-install ? I would like to keep my old node number of 3619. I didn't know this would be such a problem....

k9dc
 

On Jan 12, 2020, at 00:33, Richard Hyde <@KE4GJG> wrote:

Yep... It would be nice to have been notified... Instead of your repeater going down in the middle of an emergency EOC net…
Crossover links into IRLP from other networks have always been prohibited by IRLP policy, unless done at a Reflector. So you should not have been surprised.

The problem caused by the HAMvoip package was that it allowed folks from non-IRLP networks to dial in to IRLP. This in effect, reduced the effectiveness of our security policy. Also many of the non-IRLP networks had policies inconsistent with the RF-required end-point policy of IRLP. The EchoIRLP package for example, was designed to allow node participation in both the IRLP and Echolink networks, yet was specifically designed to prevent Echolink stations to enter the IRLP Network (and vice versa).

At the same time some Reflectors were modified to also be Echolink Conference bridges. Unfortunately that has fallen from favor a bit because now Echolink charges an annual fee to operate a conference bridge.

HAMvoip also seems to have created an informal network of passing around IRLP Boards so folks could surreptitiously obtain keys without buying the IRLP hardware. Then harvesting the PGP keys for use in an unauthorized software package such as HAMvoip.

We have been aware of this activity for quite some time (couple of years), but we kind of hoped it would go away and not cause any problems, or not be that popular. Unfortunately we have begun to receive complaints from Reflector admins about possible mis-use of the network. Therefore an automated routine was created to scan the network and identify nodes running the HAMvoip package, and remove those keys.

We are also working on a method of connecting Allstar Link conferences and designated IRLP Reflectors together in the network, much like the way Echolink Conferences and IRLP Reflectors are shared today. I am not sure that will come to pass, but it may be easier than we think. Stay tuned.

-k9dc

David McGough
 

Dear Dave, K9DC,

I don't think I've previously talked with you. However, I have some comments. My e-mail box is full of messages from angry, innocent HamVoIP / IRLP users.

Intentionally pulling keys from any network with no notice WILL NOT fly in today's world. There is already established legal precedent in that regard, specifically in the ham radio world.
Think about the ramifications if your unannounced action had crippled IRLP nodes or networks during an emergency?

HamVoIP does not condone nor support any groups attempting to "harvest" IRLP nodes or keys. If some unscrupulous persons attempt to obtain keys, claiming they purchased hardware where they did not, we have no knowledge of nor condone those activities.  However, if this is all about purchasing something, there is a really simple solution: IRLP should just charge an acceptably large fee to obtain or transfer a key to a different call sign! This is a simple problem to solve!

I am hopeful that IRLP REFLECTOR owners who had ANY problems with known HamVoIP users will contact me directly (kb4fxc .at. gmail.com). I'd like to hear more details about who was causing problems and what kind of problems??  Was it not possible to simply block those individual IRLP nodes??

While I realize legacy policies may exist, I'm a bit baffled as to why cross-linking between networks is of any significance at the individual node level? The HamVoIP software DOES NOT by default provide an automatic gateway mechanism. Bridges between networks can only be established or allowed by the node owner / control-op.  Easily enough, this similarly could be done with stock IRLP hardware.

Having been a ham for almost 40 years, I firmly believe in keeping the RADIO in ham radio. However, we ALL need to realize that this year is 2020. It is not the world of 2000. Nor the world of 1980.  Laws regarding ham radio have changed and been relaxed globally. We all must focus on the future, evolving as changes happen, otherwise we'll end up simply as pages of history.


73, David KB4FXC

AG0N-3055
 

On Jan 12, 2020, at 15:12, David McGough <kb4fxc@...> wrote:

Intentionally pulling keys from any network with no notice WILL NOT fly in today's world.
It certainly will fly. Those who built the network, and those who over the years have joined the network did so, knowing that ONLY IRLP nodes will be attached to our IRLP network with the quality that IRLP promises. Having listened for hours many times to an experimental reflector where IRLP, Echolink, and Allstar VoIP networks are interconnected, I can only say that the audio quality that comes from that system is precisely the reason that other systems are not allowed on normal reflectors. It’s also why experimental reflectors came to be. When you connect to one, you know that other nodes may not subscribe to the higher qualities and control found with IRLP.

Gary - AG0N

Phil Zocco
 

That is part of the reasoning I had with rebuilding my node to the latest version of Debian: beautiful audio and no Echolink. In all my years of IRLP (almost 18 years), audio is just great.

I thought about EchoIRLP but I had enough of listening to shitty audio. RF in. RF out. Radio by radio.

These are the IRLP rules. Love 'em of leave 'em.

And thanks to VE7LTD and ALL involved to keep IRLP as it should be.

73,

Phil N1BOW
Node 5960
AMT MP 113.6
Niantic, CT USA Earth

-----Original Message-----
From: IRLP@irlp.groups.io [mailto:IRLP@irlp.groups.io] On Behalf Of AG0N-3055
Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2020 6:37 PM
To: IRLP@irlp.groups.io
Subject: Re: [IRLP] PGP Key ring key problem



On Jan 12, 2020, at 15:12, David McGough <kb4fxc@...> wrote:

Intentionally pulling keys from any network with no notice WILL NOT fly in today's world.
It certainly will fly. Those who built the network, and those who over the years have joined the network did so, knowing that ONLY IRLP nodes will be attached to our IRLP network with the quality that IRLP promises. Having listened for hours many times to an experimental reflector where IRLP, Echolink, and Allstar VoIP networks are interconnected, I can only say that the audio quality that comes from that system is precisely the reason that other systems are not allowed on normal reflectors. It�s also why experimental reflectors came to be. When you connect to one, you know that other nodes may not subscribe to the higher qualities and control found with IRLP.

Gary - AG0N

K1IMD
 

All Audio issues/Audio Level Standards/Technical Requirements/Quality Side/EchoLink aside:

IRLP = Internet RADIO Linking Project
To give you an idea about IRLP, as those early adopters of IRLP may recall, IRLP was built around the days before broadband Internet was widely available.  Many early contacts I had in England were on dial-up phone lines at 8K GSM because the cost of data was so pricey.  Broadband did not exist in most homes let alone radio sites and why IRLP supports a handshake for codec (8kGSM or wider) as well as PGP authentication.

An other thing that needs to be understood is that IRLP is a global network and other countries outside the US do not have the same "rules" as the US FCC Part 97.  I clearly remember a discussion back in 2000-2002 about the headaches that another country (it may have been Australia I don't remember) had to go through to allow IRLP to be used at all.  One very large selling point to their government agency was that there was a radio on the other end and there was a licensed amateur operating the radio.  It would be pretty hard for some non amateur to just hop on the network with the PGP authentication unlike another amateur network I know of.  I believe there was a huge concern about 3rd party traffic... FYI some countries don't support 3rd party traffic at all or have very very strict rules concerning 3rd party traffic.  For the above reasons, it is why IRLP became a globally accepted network.

And finally, those that govern/create a network create guidelines, those that join the network must abide by the guidelines if they chose not to; they are free to leave and go build their own network that is more agreeable to them.

Just because we can cross band, cross mode, cross network, transcode, translate, bridge, conference does not mean that we should.

73
Jon
K1IMD
Nodes: 448, 449, 487, 4474, 4689, 4677
Node Built: 448, 449,487, 436, 406, 4474, 4680, 4819, 4677, 4689, 4878, 4411, 4309

On 1/12/2020 19:47, Phil Zocco wrote:
That is part of the reasoning I had with rebuilding my node to the latest version of Debian: beautiful audio and no Echolink. In all my years of IRLP (almost 18 years), audio is just great.

I thought about EchoIRLP but I had enough of listening to shitty audio. RF in. RF out. Radio by radio.

These are the IRLP rules. Love 'em of leave 'em.

And thanks to VE7LTD and ALL involved to keep IRLP as it should be.

73,

Phil N1BOW
Node 5960
AMT MP 113.6
Niantic, CT USA Earth


-----Original Message-----
From: IRLP@irlp.groups.io [mailto:IRLP@irlp.groups.io] On Behalf Of AG0N-3055
Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2020 6:37 PM
To: IRLP@irlp.groups.io
Subject: Re: [IRLP] PGP Key ring key problem



On Jan 12, 2020, at 15:12, David McGough <kb4fxc@...> wrote:

Intentionally pulling keys from any network with no notice WILL NOT fly in today's world.
It certainly will fly.  Those who built the network, and those who over the years have joined the network did so, knowing that ONLY IRLP nodes will be attached to our IRLP network with the quality that IRLP promises.  Having listened for hours many times to an experimental reflector where IRLP, Echolink, and Allstar VoIP networks are interconnected, I can only say that the audio quality that comes from that system is precisely the reason that other systems are not allowed on normal reflectors.  It�s also why experimental reflectors came to be.  When you connect to one, you know that other nodes may not subscribe to the higher qualities and control found with IRLP.

Gary - AG0N






k9dc
 

On Jan 12, 2020, at 17:12, David McGough <kb4fxc@...> wrote:

While I realize legacy policies may exist, I'm a bit baffled as to why cross-linking between networks is of any significance at the individual node level?
This is the only paragraph that warrants a response.

The policy is what it is. It doesn’t matter why or that you do not understand or are baffled. Crosslinks to other networks are simply not permitted. It simply means you cannot do that within IRLP. Any software hacks that allow cross linking products will be rejected from the network. Hamvoip is one such product.

Crosslinks ARE allowed on Reflectors because they are always and only destinations for calls. To further that type of operation, EXPerimental nodes were created. They allow literally anything to be connected. But the ability to use them is completely optional to each node owner. There is no security (PGP) provided by IRLP, but you can devise anything you want.

-k9dc